If you have questions that are not answered here,

please email your questions to:      shaare_shamaim@yahoo.com

 

October 2019:

We have been asked by many folks about our stance on vaccines, so, after much research & discussion, here is our statement regarding this...

Our position on vaccines is:

 

* Flu vaccine: I think is pointless, as the flu mutates. It is not effective & I and my family have not had them, and also have not had the flu. It is an individual choice.

 

* Guardasil: I think it is unproven & even possibly dangerous. Won't use it & do not recommend, but again, each individuals choice.

 

* Chicken pox, on the fence, but prefer it to be done, and did do it for my kids...  My thinking is like this...  because when I was a kid, we all got the pox, and it was about like having a bad flu, and that was it - BUT, (a) there are vurnerable folks, (such as my friend's daughter), who, if they got it, would likely kill them; and (b) it has actually become a more serious disease than when I was a kid; and (c) if kids are not vaccinated, and they get it and spread it to an adult who has not had it, it can be deadly then too...  And anyway, WHY would we want to put our kids through the suffering of having a sickness if we have the tool to stop it?

 

* Old childhood diseases (measels, whooping cough, etc.): First, I will say that, as a person with Aspergers, I can say absolutely that vaccines do NOT cause autism - that is a complete myth that has been proven utterly false...  And as the neice of an aunt who had polio, but survived, I can say it is a very scary disease to say the least.

We KNOW that there are some cases of valid medical reasons why some children cannot be vaccinated, or must change the vaccination schedule (my best friend's children). I HAVE studied the science of vaccines, as well as the halacha behind it; and have personally seen that the old diseases were nearly eradicated since vaccines; and now due to the anti-vacc hype, and mis-information, they have again reared their scary heads, and have caused the DEATHS of babies and other vulnerable people (such as those who cannot be vaccinated). So, in conclusion, for the safety of all, and by halachic standards, vaccination against the old childhood diseases must be mandatory (except in the cases where there is valid medical exemption). On the other hand, we must be open to those cases of valid medical exemption, and not legislate against those folks.

 

The bottom line to it all is, if parents choose to spread vaccines out, rather than giving so many all at once to their baby, we have no issue with that... but the old crippling, deadly diseases, we certainly do NOT want coming back; and we have been given the tools to overcome them, and they need to be done, unless there is a valid medical reason why they cannot be (and IF a child cannot be vaccinated, then they are the ones we most need to protect by making sure the rest are vaccinated). Judaism firmly supports vaccination from childhood diseases, as the benefits far outweigh the risks... and this is not a subject we will debate or change our stance on.

​

May 23 2018: 

A clarification, as we have had several people inquire... For those who wish to know, there is/will be NO marijuana/hemp/cannabis grown or used at The Frum Farm. There are MANY reasons for this, but just a few are:

(1) It draws an undesirable element - people looking to steal, or commit other crimes (we've seen this first-hand); (2) It sets a very poor example for our children; (3) At least one of our community members is deathly allergic to the plant. ~ There are many other reasons, but suffice it to say, it will not be here on Frum Farm property. 

 

 

UPDATED (DECEMEBR 2016) FAQ's: 

We are often asked the same questions, and many people request the same info. – therefore, I have compiled the questions/answers/info, to hopefully provide the info people are seeking. The info below is not in any particular order. I hope it helps; but if you have further questions, we are happy to answer those as well.

 

About myself/family: I am a BT, through Chabad (Sephardic, as well as Irish and Native American - yes, really ;-) ), originally from Los Angeles, but have lived all over the USA - North, South, East and West - and also in Israel. My husband is FFB (Ashkenazi), from Boro Park, NY, who is Yeshivish, from a Chasidish background. We have boy/girl twins, age 6; (and I have two grown daughters - one in Seattle, and one in Monsey, NY - and three grandchildren). I have felt that the Frum Farm building is my mission in life for quite some time; and while MANY people have expressed a desire for this, no one seemed ready to make the leap of faith and be the first one... So, we decided to be the modern day pioneer family, and establish the beginning :-) - and we came here from the Seattle, WA area. I did a huge amount of research before choosing the spot; and for many reasons decided this was the best location. Since moving here, I truly believe that I was correct - for many reasons - and while the local area has no Orthodox community, there ARE Jews all around us! Everywhere we go, we have people stop us, asking, "Can I talk to you please?" - very interested in what we are trying to do here. We have met children of Holocaust survivors, and a mother of a frum daughter who lives in Israel, and MANY other Jews. Even the non-Jewish population are big supporters of Israel and the Jewish people! There exists a great opportunity here for kiruv.

 

We just arrived here on the property in June 2015, and have been focused on getting some housing and a shul/school building set up; and are in the process of building a mikvah, so have not yet established the "farm" aspects... But our goal is to (step-by-step) create a permaculture on the entire 40 acres, that will be self-sustaining.

 

Our plans for the on-site school would simply be built around what the parents need & want... and whatever grade levels are needed would be included. I would like for us all to work together on the school, and all be involved in our children's education. I want the kids to have every opportunity to learn and grow both in religious and quality secular studies, as well as good old fashioned common sense & reasoning, and also being involved in the agriculture and permaculture on the property. I believe the school can develop in any way the community families choose. Fortunately, Colorado is very supportive of Home School efforts, and even offers (entirely free of charge) an entire interactive (secular) curriculum to every child in the state :-) ...and we will also have well-qualified religious studies teachers here as well. The goal is to provide the highest quality education possible, to enable our children to excel; and we will pursue all avenues of achieving that.

 

There are NO building codes here. Yes, you read that right :-) This is one of the few counties remaining in this country that does not have building codes - so there is no cost for building permits. (Part of the reason I chose the location). The only "code" that will be enforced here is mine - that the construction be safe for all community members. The only "fees" would be the long-term land lease in the Community Land Trust, which is $120 per YEAR (to cover taxes and any unforeseen expenses); and each homeowners minimal monthly contribution (for continuing to build and improve community infrastructure and support our school), not to exceed $200/month. Once a family is approved for community membership, they choose their parcel of land, and the joining cost will be a one-time only cost of $2500. Unless there is a financial need - then the family can pay with "sweat equity" instead of money, by committing to 300 hours of work in the community, to be completed in their first 8 months here (or a combination of the two).

 

* Basically, the property will be put into a non-profit status, and residents will own their own homes, but their lot will be a long-term land lease.

The best explaination of this is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_land_trust

...and an excerpt from our community docs: "The community farm will operate similar to a Community Land Trust, in order to develop and steward affordable housing, community gardens and buildings, and other community assets on behalf of the community. We seek to balance the needs of individuals to access land and maintain security of tenure, with a community’s need to maintain affordability, economic diversity and access to community services, while preserving the rural agricultural setting and open spaces.

Although we intend never to resell the land, we will provide for the exclusive use of portions of the land by the owners of any buildings located thereon. Parcels of land will be of use to individuals, the owners of the homes they construct, through long-term, perpetually-renewing ground leases. This two-party contract between the landowner and a building’s owner protects the latter’s interests in security, privacy, legacy, and equity, while enforcing the community’s interests in preserving the appropriate use, the structural integrity, and the continuing affordability of any buildings located upon its land.

The community retains first option to repurchase any structures located upon its land, should their owners ever choose to sell. This is designed to give present homeowners a fair return on their investment, while giving future homebuyers fair access to housing at an affordable price. By design and by intent, the community is committed to preserving the affordability of housing (and other structures), one generation after another, in perpetuity.

As owner of the underlying land and as owner of an option to re-purchase any buildings located on its land, the land owners have an abiding interest in what happens to these structures and to the people who occupy them. The ground lease requires owner-occupancy, community membership and responsible use of the premises."

 

* Initially, each family will either have jobs in the surrounding community, or work from home in their own professions; and once we begin to produce food (organics, fish, eggs, chickens, smoked meats, etc.), as well as having an on-site kosher bed-and-breakfast/vacation spot, the community will move into being self-sufficient (although there will likely always be those who choose to maintain other employment). There are many other "brain-storming" ideas for community income that are being looked at as well.

 

"Off the grid" simply means that we don't pay a bill to the local utility company, but instead have our own sources of power via solar and wind.

That said, there currently is existing electric service on the property, even though our goal is to get off grid; and we likely will keep one central building "on grid". There is also existing phone, internet, etc. available as well, which would enable you to continue working from home.

Incidentally, this area is so supportive of alternative power that if we remain hooked up to the grid, but running our own solar/wind power, the power company will actually purchase any excess power from us ;-)

 

Parnassa opportunities will vary by each individual family - some may pursue self-employment from home/the farm, while others will work in their regular professions in the surrounding communities. People do various things here for parnosa, just as anywhere else. I happen to be a bus driver, and will be driving the local school bus part time; and my husband is an accountant, who will work for local businesses. (We are only 5 miles outside town). Another family - he is a Rabbi and a librarian, and she will work in the local area, as she is a special education teacher and speech therapist. Yet another plans to make a business here on the property, and may even employ some of our community members. Yet another is a preschool teacher, with a husband who works from home. So, parnosa will vary among individuals - but cost of living will be far less, as we will not have utility bills, will be growing and producing much of our own food, etc. The product(s) produced on the farm (such as greenhouse produce, chickens, etc.) will be mainly for use by the community - however, I do want to eventually begin a store/farmer's market, and maybe a CSA, for income back to the community; and of course, there will be individual products (such as family gardens and items like soaps, jewelry, etc.) that will be up to the individual as to how they choose to use those for income, whether through the community or personal business pursuit.

 

The housing costs will vary based upon what type of home each individual family wishes to have. The cabin on the Facebook page is simply the first that I built, and my family is living in it while working on improving the property. In the Spring, I plan to build some more cabins, for use by families while they are building their homes. After getting the property set up, I plan to build an Earthship (see earthship.org) for my family; and another family is planning to build a cob house, another an earth bag house, a container home, etc. The cost should be minimal, as the idea is for the community members to help in building the homes (think like an Amish barn-raising ;-) ) - and I use many items in building that are "freebies" and re-purposed items... So, the end resulting cost is up to the family in how simple or elaborate they choose to be.

 

Incidentally, in many ways, the climate and terrain here are similar to Israel, combined with the Old American West ;-) ...we are on the West Slope, where the weather is more mild than Denver on the East side of the Rockies, so that this area's nick-name is "the banana belt", where all the orchards and vineyards are! In fact, Denver gets all of their fruits from the West Slope! There are orchards and vineyards all around us, and this is also an area that is huge on organics!  ...and the people here are the nicest of anywhere I have ever been (and I've been all over). We love it here, and would love to have you come visit and see if it's the right fit for you!

 

How many people have joined you or are planning on coming to join?

While we are the only family living here full time now, there are several familes (and some singles) that have made pilot trips and plan to join us as soon as they work out their logistics; and several others are waiting for us to build cottages for folks to live in while building their homes - and we plan have those ready in the Spring.

 

How are the zoning laws in your county different from other counties?

100% different... This county is one of the very few remaining counties in this country which has NO building codes. Yes, you read that correctly - NO building codes - which means NO building permits and the fees! There is some talk about starting some - but we can get built before that ever happens ;-) The only code here is mine - which is that it is safe :-)

 

Do you have funding for this endeavor?

We are using our own funding - which is why it is taking so long to get developed.

 

How much money would we need?

If you're asking about the cost for a family: there is a one-time-only joining fee of $2,500; and then an annual long-term land lease cost of $120 (per YEAR); and the monthly community contribution of [no more than] $200/month, which goes right back into building the community infrastructure, the shul and the school. Other than that, it just depends on what the family chooses for their home - I built our cottage that we live quite comfortable in, for a total of $7,500. Others I know plan to build a cob house - which our land has the IDEAL sand/clay consitancy for - which costs next to nothing; while others say they want to make a container home or straw bale... Me personally, I plan to build an Earthship for my family, but after I get the community built up.

 

Is there housing or would it need to be built?

See above - & As noted above, we will be building some cottages for families to use while they build, which we are currently building; and after families move into their homes, then the cottages will be used for an income for the community by offering a kosher bed & breakfast retreat. Also, the idea here is to assist each other in building and to learn from each other - think like an Amish barn-raising ;-) 

 

Where do you attend Shul?

We have our own shul on site. (Previously, we attended (in Seattle area) a Chabad shul, but my husband grew up in NY, and attended Chasidic shuls).

 

Would we be able to bring our animals out?

Most likely, yes, at least for some, but I don't know that we would have room for too many, aside from the chickens, yaks and some other animals we plan to have (unless someone were able to buy the 300+ acres right next to us) ...and, aside from the lack of room, for those that are not kosher animals, (such as alpacas), there would need to be a specific purpose for them to be here (ie: do they produce an income from wool?)

 

Do you have a well, water rights, etc?

We plan to put in a domestic well, as well as an agriculture well + a cistern large enough to supply the community. We also have a [very clean] creek, irrigation ditch and ponds on the property.

 

Are there jobs close to your location?

There are jobs. It all depends on what a person does ;-) (I drive the local school bus and a local postal route). We are only 5 miles out of town.

 

Do you homeschool?

No. We will be building our own school on-site, for the community children. In the meantime, my 5 year old twins attend the local elementary school (they will be going to kindergarten this year, and went to preschool last year); and the local school and town have been wonderful! My husband teaches the children in Hebrew and religious studies for now. We plan for Kindergarten to be their last year in the public school, and then will begin the school here.

 

>>>1. Education

1a. How are you guys finding the local public school?

 

Excellent. It is very old school", where they still say the pledge each morning, and they don't teach the politically correct nonsesnse found in many big city schools. The staff is very open and accomodating to our judaism and all that entails, including the new principal, who just happens to have worked for several years in am Orthodox Jewish camp in the catskills. (Last year in preschool, we put up a big menorah in the kids class, and the other kids excitedly asked if they could help our kids set up the candles).

1b. Do you have any information about its reputation? I don't have direct info to give you, but they have a very good reputation; and you could look up info on it, I'm sure. It is: http://hk8.deltaschools.com/<<<

 

>>>2. People

2a. Are you still the only family out there?

 

Currently, yes.

 

2b. How many people are committed to moving and will you have a minyan?

 

Currently, there are 6, or maybe 7, families who are planning to make the move. There are also 2 families in Israel who are seriously wanting to come, but also have a lot to work out. I of course, cannot forecast the future, other than to give it my honest opinion - but my thoughts are that we will likely have a minyan in about 1 more year.

 

2c. When do any such people plan on moving?

 

Some are waiting for us to complete the cottages (which I am currently building in Oct & Nov), and some need to complete this school year, while others are in the process of organizing financial logistics. That said, I expect folks to begin moving Spring and Summer.<<<

 

>>>3. Utilities

3a. You mention a power hook up. What do you do for water? 

 

Until we put in a well, we are currently using a large cistern, which costs 8 cents a gallon to fill. For just water around the property, we use an irrigation ditch, a creek and a pond, which are piped where we need them.<<<

 

>>>4. Parnasa

4a. What type of industry is there in the area? 

 

You will find the same infrastructure here as in the city, just on a much smaller scale. There are lawyers and financiers here in the area, of course, but the income is much less than in the city. Of course, the cost of living is also a small fraction of the city (and especially a night & day difference from CT). Locally, the main work is in healthcare, and the educational system. However, Grand Junction is only about an hour away, which is a small (60,000+) but growing city, with all the amenities of other cities; and an hour and a half from us is one of the wealthiest places in the country - Telluride ;-) We loved our community in WA too, but I could not see the point to the endless hamster wheel of working to pay the rent/bills, so that I can go to work to pay... in a never-ending cycle, and never being able to afford to buy a home at such inflated prices...  The bottom line is, there are always ways to gain an income - it all depends on how one chooses to live, whether one wants a simple, back-to-basics lifestyle, or not. <<<

 

 

>>>2. Healthcare -

How close are medical services (e.g., hospital, primary care doctors, urgent care, specialists)?

 

Primary care and ambulance service is available about 5 miles away, in the small town (Hotchkiss) that we live near; urgent care, and an "A listed" hospital & trauma center is about 20 minutes away in Delta; some specialists are located in Delta as well, and some come on a weekly basis from Denver; and there are more specialists and a major medical center in Grand Junction, about an hour away - all with air lift helicopter service as well.<<<

 

>>>4. Safety -

4a.Is there currently a vetting/background check process for new families?

 

Yes, absolutely. We do require a background check, and references, and an interview with the community board, in order to be sure that everyone has a safe, peaceful community.

 

4b. Do you have crime rate information available for the area? 

 

I don't have specific info available, however, I can tell you that we live in a very rural area, mostly surrounded by generations-old family farms; and it is very "old-school"...  I can tell you that the local newspaper reports on area crime, and the worst crime I have seen reported is two cousins who had a few too many beers and punched each other; and a woman who stole a dollar item from the local dollar store, and then drove a county truck home to a town about a half hour away, and later claimed that she only took the truck because she had no other way to get home, and was planning to return it later.  :-O LOL  There is very little crime here.

 

4c. How far away is the closest police station?

 

The nearest police station is about 5 miles away, in the town of Hotchkiss<<<

 

>>>5. Religion/Modernity -

5a. We probably consider ourselves modern orthodox. I understand this could be a difficult question, but how does the community lean in terms of accepting modern society?

 

Are you Shomer Shabbos? Shomer kashrut? Reasonably tznuis? Respectful of others observance that may be more/less religious/strict than you? If you can say "Yes" to those things, then I don't see any issues ;-) Obviously, we all need to be basically on the same page to build a cohesive community, but we are not interested in making sectarian edicts, or playing "religious police" ...more on this below.

 

5b. Is the community affiliated with any rabbi or major Jewish movement or organization?

 

There is a rabbi who plans to join us - and I would say he is somewhere between Yeshivish and Modern Orthodox - but we do not want to be affiliated with any particular "brand", as our entire point is to create a community where we can bring unity rather than division - a community where all Orthodox Jews can create a harmonious atmosphere of working together and respecting each others' backgrounds.<<<

 

 

6. Are you exclusively an Orthodox Jewish community?

 

Yes & No... I'll explain what I mean. I don't like to use labels, as they conjure up different things for different people. So, yes, we are Orthodox in that we follow basic halacha, we are Shomer Shabbos & Shomer Kashrut, follow reasonable tzniut standards, and members of the community will be truly Jewish (either born to a Jewish mother, or completed conversion approved by an Orthodox Va'ad HaRabonim). On the other hand, we do not want to play "religious police" either - meaning that we do not want to enforce sectarian rules and dictate every aspect of people's lives. In order to have a cohesive community, we do need to have everyone basically on the same page, but we still want people to be free to celebrate their individual backgrounds - after all that is what makes life more interesting! :-)

That said, I will be quite frank - there have been some folks who have been interested, but were of the group that call themselves "messianics" (I personally call them "christians in drag"), and that will never be accepted here in any form, as they are what the Torah refers to as "inciters to idolatry", which is an extremely grave Torah offence - they attempt to convert Jews to christianity, which is most vile, and would never be part of this community.